this was posted on jw leaks.. my truth's | dad seeking truth.
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"If the individual is not an apostate or actively promoting wrongdoing...
Here's what this means:
If the individual is not saying that they have become a born again Christian or telling others that Jesus is the Mediator for all mankind...
Then, heck yeah.... give them their families back after humiliating them for 3 months. What a loving provision!
looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.
why don't the jw's do the same?.
from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).
Once Adam fell, the right to exist ceased, for the wages of sin is death. The miracle is that God has allowed any of sinful man to exist for any length of time. Your next breath is a kindness from the Lord.
Courts all over the world recognize that the pure administration of Law leaves something lacking. Judges recognize that justice without mercy is cruelty.
Thomas Aquinas said, “Mercy without justice is the mother of dissolution” and “justice without mercy is cruelty.” For the former, the wicked are allowed to go unpunished, and for the latter, they are punished with brutality.
God who the standard of goodness and who knows all things is perfectly within his judicial authority right to apply a mixture justice and mercy as he sees fit.
You seemed to be hung up on the idea that if you submit to God, he might go back on his word to save you and treat you as a cherished son or daughter for eternity.
If he did, I would only be getting what I deserve anyway, so I have no right to complain. But Jesus, who raised himself from the dead, guarantees otherwise:
Receiving Jesus guarantees eternal life:
*Rom.6:23b The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.
*Jn.11:26 Whosoever…believeth in Me shall never die.
*Jn.14:2-3 In My Father’s house are many mansions.
*1Pet.1:3,4 Incorruptible inheritance reserved in Heaven for you.
*2 Cor 1:22. Our inheritance cannot be taken away.
*1Jn.5:11 God hath given to us eternal life…in His Son.
*John 17:3 to know Jesus is to have Eternal Life.
2 Cor 1:3. God is our comfort and we can comfort others and use that affliction to help others.
John 6:47 “I tell you the truth, anyone who believes has eternal life.
1 Corinthians 15:51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
for decades, critics have pointed out the unfairness of god slaughtering billions in a future armageddon who never even met a jw much less heard their life-saving message.
(remember the contortions around the collective responsibility of nations?
) also, why do babies and children have to die simply because their parents rejected the witnesses?
I have asked you, numerous times, if you can or cannot determine what makes murder wrong. Or theft, or rape, or deception, or any of a number of actions that we deem immoral or wrong.
Of course I can, and you can too. The question is why can we do that?
The idea that we cannot determine what is right or wrong without god fails the moment we admit that we can explain why certain actions are good or bad.
That's ridiculous. You are saying that because we can determine right from wrong, that explains why we can do it.
If you and I were trekking through the jungle in the Congo and came across a 747 jet airplane in the forest, you would never tell yourself because its here, that explains why its here. And if you tried to write a peer reviewd paper using that reasoning, you'd be laughed away as a nut.
And that is just exactly the kind of "logic" you are trying to employ here. It makes no sense. Why should chemicals care what reaction they have? In the atheist paradigm that’s pretty much all we are right?
One chemical reaction goes fizz, another one goes bang. Who cares? That’s how atheists describe their formation right? It’s all just chemicals and chance.
So, even if we grant the miracle of everything appearing from nothing (which is a huge grant) your burden is to explain how rocks, electricity, primordial soup, chemicals, poisonous gases, predation, and blind chance can provide any kind of basis whatsoever in determining that murder is wrong.
So, go ahead, try to do it.
The reality is that blind, random chance gives every reason to doubt that we could be sure about anything morally.
But atheists do not treat their moral certitude as something coming from chemical reactions. They parade their morality as something that is rock solid and logically unassasilable, because they have it. But how can accidents provide anything other than more accidents? How can you be sure that your moral certitude about murder is anything other than just another roadstop along happanstance highway?
If atheists were honest, they would have to conclude that their certitude about murder is.... just another accident.
But they don't treat it that way do they? They must borrow from the Christian worldview and claim that they just "know it". And again, this claim of just knowing it is a dead giveaway that atheists don't really believe their own made up story about accidents, chemical reactions, lightning bolts in a primiordial soup, etc, etc, etc.
The bible gets it right, and the rabbit hole atheists crawl in to try and hide from God in won't work:
Romans 2 - Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. 2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. 3 Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?.......
When Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
Even the most remote tribes who have been cut off from the rest of civilization observe a moral code similar to everyone else’s. Although differences certainly exist in civil matters, virtues like bravery and loyalty and vices like greed and cowardice are universal.
If man were responsible for that code, it would differ as much as every other thing that man has invented. Where, then, do we get these laws of what should be done?
going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.
"so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?
them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".
My understanding was that the FDS was a class, identical with the 144,000.
Not identical. WT theology says that the GB make up the "remnant" of the 144K. But as Riley so eloquently stated, its all reallly about 8 men. They are the rightful rulers of the world. It is just sick when free agents such as we are, choose to worship men as the sole mouhtpiece of God on earth.
looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.
why don't the jw's do the same?.
from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).
What basis is there to trust that he will do as you expect
The same as it has been since Calvary.
2000 years a man was born in an insignificant village in a far flug provence of Rome to a peasant girl. The boy grew up and was never known to tell a lie. He performed astonising miracles that even his enemies acknowledge. He predicted that he would be killed and that three days later he would resurrect himself from the dead... while he was dead.
He did all of these things publically, in the open, in the heart of the most mysterious and religious city in the world - Jerusalem.
That is the basis of my belief that God is not a liar.
What is the basis of your unbelief?
for decades, critics have pointed out the unfairness of god slaughtering billions in a future armageddon who never even met a jw much less heard their life-saving message.
(remember the contortions around the collective responsibility of nations?
) also, why do babies and children have to die simply because their parents rejected the witnesses?
Well, we certainly didn't get our notion of good and evil from the Bible
Sanchy,
If you were not a product of the God of the bible, you would not even be able to admit that you have notions of good and evil as you have done above. Why don't you get upset at rocks, liquids, chemicals, gravity, electricty, molecules etc. when they don't act "right"? Why don't we put animals on trial for murder?
The atheist certitude of their own morality, gives them away that they really do believe in the God of the bible and that they do not really believe in blind chance mixed with chemical reactions and explosions, and other unguided imaginations etc; as the source of their existence.
So, atheists need look no farther than their own morality for proof of God. Out of all the places to hide from God, atheism makes the least sense and is by far the most improbable.
for decades, critics have pointed out the unfairness of god slaughtering billions in a future armageddon who never even met a jw much less heard their life-saving message.
(remember the contortions around the collective responsibility of nations?
) also, why do babies and children have to die simply because their parents rejected the witnesses?
Simon,
Why should chemicals care what reaction they have? In the atheist paradigm that’s pretty much all we are right?
One chemical reaction goes fizz, another one goes bang. Who cares? That’s how atheists describe their formation right? It’s all just chemicals and chance.
Im not saying that serial killing is not inherently evil, nor am I saying ateists don’t have a God-given conscience that tells them so.
What I am wondering is how happenstance could possibly provide atheists with ANY notion of universal evil?
What say you?
looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.
why don't the jw's do the same?.
from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).
But 'goodness' is defined by god, not by us.
Yes. If you were a product of chance, you would have no way of knowing if anything was good or bad.
looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.
why don't the jw's do the same?.
from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).
When the rich man's soul was in Hades, Jesus, said was tormented by the flame.
A non material soul can experience torment without actually burning physically, because there is nothing physical to burn.
To be consistent we can say that a soul is tormented by the flames of hell while not actually physically burning in the flames.
This is far more something to fear that just physical burning because unlike something physical, the soul can’t be burned up…. The torment is perpetual, without end, for eternity.
Would anyone truly be safe?
All whom trust Jesus are not only safe but inherit everlasting life and peace as an inheritance because of being made a son of God, not because they earned anything.
God is doing a work where only those that want him will experience his unimaginable goodness.
For those that don’t want him, they experience his everlasting wrath as payment for their sin and indifference to Life.
for decades, critics have pointed out the unfairness of god slaughtering billions in a future armageddon who never even met a jw much less heard their life-saving message.
(remember the contortions around the collective responsibility of nations?
) also, why do babies and children have to die simply because their parents rejected the witnesses?
@Nicolaou
For decades, critics have pointed out the unfairness of God slaughtering billions in a future Armageddon who never even met a JW much less heard their life-saving message.
You accept a couple of WT assumptions:
The Anti-Christ is the one doing all the killing in the GT. Jesus shows up at the end and rescues what's left of mankind. The WT doesn't have a biblical life saving message becasue they require that you reject the Mediator and every Lord's Supper ceremony. Their message in one of death.... you own, in order to wipe out your sin. It is the perfect religion for carnal man.
We wouldn't take the word of a serial killer or abuser that they're going to change their ways in future
Why should he change his ways? There’s nothing wrong with serial killers if atheism is true, there’s nothing wrong with anything, and atheists have no real justification for complaining about how the world is, much less expressing judgment on anyone, especially someone they claim doesn't exist.
